Fed H-1B Visa Probes May Help American Engineers

Vineet Nayar, chief executive of HCL Technologies, says that American tech grads are "unemployable."
  • Vineet Nayar, chief executive of HCL Technologies, says that American tech grads are "unemployable."

American computer professionals who complain that they lose jobs or get lower pay because of imported tech workers may have reason to smile. Government regulators are cracking down on alleged fraud in worker visa programs.

But some heavyweight companies, such as San Diego’s Qualcomm, are lobbying hard to bring in even more foreign engineers. Smaller local software companies want more offshore techies, too.

On January 25, India-based Infosys, a so-called body shop, or placement firm that sends talent to American companies, revealed that it and some of its employees are targets of a Texas criminal investigation into fraud and abuse of United States visa laws. The State Department, Homeland Security, Department of Justice, and Internal Revenue Service are investigating Infosys practices.

Importation of tech and other workers with a bachelor’s degree is normally accomplished through the H-1B visa program, by which foreigners can take jobs of up to six years with American corporations. America brings in 65,000 such workers a year, plus another 20,000 with advanced degrees. In addition, foreign workers take jobs with nonprofit organizations, and under the L-1 program, companies bring in employees already working in their overseas subsidiaries.

Critics complain that the H-1B engineers (heavily from India and greatly under age 30) are paid less than their United States counterparts, thus depriving Americans of jobs and depressing the general technology wage level. Under United States law, this is not supposed to happen, but studies have shown that it does.

Infosys was first sued in a whistle-blower civil suit in Alabama. An employee said he suffered retaliation after complaining that Infosys engaged in large-scale visa and tax fraud. In particular, he charged, Infosys got around the H-1B limitations by using the B-1 visa program. B-1 visas are only for nonproductive purposes, such as attending a convention; people with B-1 visas cannot receive wages from American employers. The whistle-blower charged that Infosys deposited the workers’ pay in their Indian bank accounts and gave them bank debit cards to cover living expenses in the United States. The workers’ names weren’t on the books, and state and federal withholding taxes were not paid.

The whistle-blower’s Alabama lawyer shared his information with federal government investigators, and in May of last year Infosys reported that its records were being subpoenaed. Then, on January 25, the company revealed the depth and breadth of the investigation and said it could adversely affect Infosys business.

The critics hope such adverse effects will spread throughout the H-1B program. The Infosys investigation “has put a chill in the industry,” says Donna Conroy, director of Chicago-based Bright Future Jobs, which represents American workers pushing for outsourcing reform. “The regulatory pressure has been beefed up. Companies are talking about hiring Americans again.”

Don Tennant, columnist for IT Business Edge, says that the civil and criminal Infosys cases, along with some other positive developments, are industry game-changers. The biggest tech story of this year will be “the implosion of the H-1B visa-centric business model” of major corporations, he proclaims in his column. “Company after company [will be] forced to halt…abuse of the visa system for fear of suffering the consequences that Infosys will have suffered.”

Professor Norm Matloff of the University of California Davis, who has written extensively on the H-1B program, points out that the original purpose was to bring in “the best and the brightest from around the world,” but that is not happening. “The vast majority are ordinary people doing ordinary work.” It’s all about low-priced labor, he says. “The use of foreign workers for cheap labor pervades the entire tech industry, including the large, mainstream U.S. firms, and including the foreign workers hired from U.S. universities.”

The victims are really the best and brightest American engineers “being squeezed out of the market once they accumulate 10 years or so of experience,” Matloff says on his website. And H-1B discourages United States college students from pursuing tech. “H-1B is causing an internal brain drain of American talents.”

Conroy of Bright Future Jobs deplores statements such as an infamous one by the chief executive of HCL Technologies, another Indian body shop, that American tech grads are “unemployable.” Conroy says that the body shops and America’s own tech chief executives “truly believe in the inferiority of Americans. [They believe] Americans are fat, lazy, and stupid.”

On January 30, President Obama was asked by a woman why America keeps bringing in H-1Bs when her engineer husband can’t get a job despite more than ten years of experience. A stunned Obama said, “Industry…tells me that they don’t have enough highly skilled engineers.” He promised to send the husband’s résumé to American companies.

In 2007 and 2009, senators Dick Durbin of Illinois and Charles Grassley of Iowa introduced bills that would rein in H-1B and L-1 abuses. But neither bill got to the floor. Conroy concedes any bill is “dead right now” but thinks the time is right to put one in the hopper again. “The [H-1B] program is plagued with fraud and abuse,” says Durbin — a view that many share, hoping that the crackdown on Infosys will frighten some companies.

Two years ago, the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, part of Homeland Security, put out a memo that is also proving helpful in curbing abuses. An employer seeking to hire an H-1B worker must establish an employer-employee relationship. Basically, the employer must have a sufficient level of supervisory control over the employee — having the ability to hire and fire the worker and to control his or her work product. Some hoped the memo would be the death of the body shops that recruit in India and retain some control over hirees in the United States. Maybe the Infosys probes will do the job.

Qualcomm says that 60 percent of its new grads and interns in the United States are foreign nationals. Last year, chief executive Paul Jacobs said in a speech that one of the most important jobs of government was to reform laws so more of the “best and the brightest” can come in from abroad. Why? Jacobs didn’t say it, but last year the president of Cornell University told a Senate committee that in 2006 foreign-born inventors were behind 72 percent of Qualcomm patents.

According to the American Association of Engineering Societies, foreign-born students get 42 percent of engineering master’s degrees and 53 percent of engineering PhDs at American institutions. So Qualcomm and its fellow big companies have an argument, too.

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I hope someone reconsiders the choice of photo that accompanies this news story. The image evokes those Sarah Palin and Tea-Party-inspired -- and ill-advised -- bullseye target comments they've been known for the last few years. That said, the article is "tres excellent," as always. Some great talking points and hints of strategies here that any experienced U.S.-born engineers seeking work can consider using as part of their job searches. Thanks, Don.

Although I don't have final say on art, I will take the blame because I suggested that photo. I learned yesterday -- too late -- that there is a good photo of that CEO making the "unemployable" remark on Wikipedia. Incidentally, he has never apologized for it. I have had several personal emails on the column and even a phone call from the plaintiff in the Alabama law suit today. They have all had interesting things to say, and sent interesting links, and I encouraged them to put something on this comment section to share with others. Best, Don Bauder

Let's talk about HCL and its brilliant "CEO" for a moment. Boeing's Dreamliner 787 project was delayed several times costing Boeing tens of millions of $ in delivery penalties. Want to know one of the biggest reasons? Turns out HCL was BANNED from ever working on the project again. Why? Because when the FAA inspected the electircal system software HCL had written it was deemed so bad as to be unsafe. The entire thing has to be thrown out and re-written. How's that for the brilliant best and brightest from abroad. It is India's incompetent, faking workers who are unemployable, not America's. Americans invented IT long before bleached-out Vineet Nayar ever set foot on American soil. The Indian IT song and dance has run its course. People are onto this fraud big time now.

Don, you, and the people commenting on this scam in your blog, are on the cutting edge of this issue in the media.

I know of no other media or website in America that has had the facts and intense debate over these H-B immigrant worker vias (and the dismantling of America jobs) anywhere in the country than the debates we have had right here.

We've had some dandies, thanks in part to you, SP. Yes, I hope to have the issue aired pretty thoroughly in this comment section. Best, Don Bauder

SP, I would consider Lou Dobbs major media. He often brings up the H-1B fraud.

ZaZona has been active fighting this fraud for at least 15 years but mysteriously got spooked and quit updating the website.

. http://www.zazona.com/shameh1b/ .

Where is Dobbs now? Don't know ZaZona but it looks like his stuff is worth reading, even if he is no longer updating the site. Best, Don Bauder

He was on with Stewart a few nights ago. I got the impression he was with Fox News.

5.SP, I would consider Lou Dobbs major media. He often brings up the H-1B fraud. = YES! I forgot!

Dobbs was all over this scam, at least when he was st CNN. I have not seen him cover it at all since he moved over to Fox Business.

I had forgotten Lou Dobbs was all over this. I think outside of him and Don not too many media outlets are on it.

Correction: the State Department says they issue over 100K H-1B visas per year; in light of that, the supposed "limits" or "caps" are irrelevant.

Prof. Matloff uses the term "fraud" only for certain kinds of fraud related to the H-1B visa program, and thus asserts that fraud is only a relatively minor aspect of the problem. I, OTOH, consider the whole "best and brightest" claim to be intentionally fraudulent from the start, the "innovative" claims are largely fraudulent, some of the educational credentials and experience claims by visa applicants are fraudulent (as shown by the back-pedalling and wailing when USCIS started actually cross-checking such claims), the "limits" or "caps" are fraudulent, the "talent shortage" claims are fraudulent, the vast majority of assertions about who and how "qualified" job candidates are to be fraudulent, the capable STEM work-force estimates are at the very least well below the reality, claims about how "difficult" it is to recruit STEM talent turn out to be fraudulent on examination, the advice commonly dished out by immigration and employment lawyers merely dances along the fringes of fraudulence... Everything surrounding this cluster of issues is soaked in fraud.

Prof. Matloff may be taking the cautious, professorial approach by not using the word "fraud" often. But he makes it very clear that the H-1B program is supposed to bring in the best and the brightest from India and is doing no such thing; those coming are not the best and brightest, and they are doing ordinary jobs. In fact, says Matloff, the victims are the best and brightest U.S. engineers. There seems to be pretty widespread agreement that there is a lot of outright fraud in this program, such as bringing in people under B-1 visas to evade the H-1B limits. That's why I think the HCL case is quite important. Best, Don Bauder

Good article. I'm concerned, however, that people will come away after reading it thinking that Indian companies are to blame for the adverse effects the H-1B has had on U.S. citizen-tech workers.

The fact is that most companies - foreign and domestic, Indian and non-Indian - abuse the H-1B visa in full compliance with the H-1B visa laws. Fraud is a minor issue. It's the legal wide-spread abuse of the loopholes in the H-1B visa laws that is killing us.

H-1B is a cancer on American society.

I have heard that argument, too -- that it's not so much fraud and abuse but U.S. companies working every angle within U.S. laws that are leaky with loopholes. Remember my old saying: white collar scams are not necessarily illegal. Best, Don Bauder

Here is part 1 of links to nine articles and LTEs that I have written regarding highly-skilled labor markets and the controversial H1-B visa program. The first is the most significant..

The Greedy Gates Immigration Gambit Fall 2007 (Published in January 2008) http://tinyurl.com/37l8ry

This article provides important legislative history. Career Destruction Sites - What American colleges have become Spring 2005 http://tinyurl.com/nn28sp

http://www.caller.com/news/2008/sep/14/letters/ Corpus Christi TX Caller - Times Letters to the Editor: 09.14.08 Right sentence for Jack Abramoff

Foreign workers take jobs away from skilled Americans Washington, DC Examiner Op-Ed 21 August 2008, page 22 http://tinyurl.com/GeneNelsonOpposesH-1BVisas

Immigrants don’t "make it all work," they take work 6 August 2008 Letter to the Editor, Schenectady, NY Daily Gazette http://www.dailygazette.com/news/2008/aug/06/0806_print/

Whose University is it Anyway? 8 February 2008 University of Buffalo Spectrum (I earned my Ph.D. there in 1984) http://www.ubspectrum.com/opinion/my-turn-1.1410315

How Not to "Solve" the Social Security Problem - Mass immigration is the wrong answer. Summer 1999 http://www.thesocialcontract.com/pdf/nine-four/ix-4-260.pdf

Gene A. Nelson, Ph.D.'s 13 April 1996 speech at the National Academy of Sciences Washington, DC headquarters. http://www.engology.com/ArtNelson.htm

Nelson is a PhD who has written widely on H-1B-related topics. Best, Don Bauder

  1. Here is part 1 of links to nine articles and LTEs that I have written regarding highly-skilled labor markets and the controversial H1-B visa program. The first is the most significant..

The Greedy Gates Immigration Gambit Fall 2007 (Published in January 2008) http://tinyurl.com/37l8ry
This article provides important legislative history. Career Destruction Sites - What American colleges have become Spring 2005 http://tinyurl.com/nn28sp


Corpus Christi TX Caller - Times Letters to the Editor: 09.14.08 Right sentence for Jack Abramoff Foreign workers take jobs away from skilled Americans Washington, DC Examiner Op-Ed 21 August 2008, page 22 http://tinyurl.com/GeneNelsonOpposesH-1BVisas

Immigrants don’t "make it all work," they take work 6 August 2008 Letter to the Editor, Schenectady, NY Daily Gazette


Whose University is it Anyway? 8 February 2008 University of Buffalo Spectrum (I earned my Ph.D. there in 1984)


How Not to "Solve" the Social Security Problem - Mass immigration is the wrong answer. Summer 1999


Gene A. Nelson, Ph.D.'s 13 April 1996 speech at the National Academy of Sciences Washington, DC headquarters.


Wow! The comments to this column are providing people with a lot to read on the topic. That's exactly what I hoped would happen. Best, Don Bauder

28 million US jobs have been lost since we began importing these people. In 1998 when Americans ran the economy is was BOOMING. So much for the "best and brightest".

Here's part 2:


http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/no-phds-need-apply.text No Ph.D.s Need Apply, by Sharon Begley et. al, December 5, 1994 pp 62-63, Newsweek Dr. Nelson is quoted extensively in this article.

In the 14 April 1993 Wall Street Journal article on page B-1 "Black Hole Opens in Scientist Job Rolls" by G. Pascal Zachary. Part of my story is highlighted in this article. (Search for this article by using the article title. )

"Scientist's Heated Debate on Immigration Mirrors Issues Argued Throughout U.S." by Robert Finn, The Scientist, Page 1, November 27, 1995 Dr. Nelson is quoted extensively in this article ( The techno-terrorism claims that I advanced in 1995 have been amply substantiated by the actions of U.S. graduate school trained Khalid Shaikh Mohammad, the mastermind of the 11 September 2001 terrorist attacks.)

American Outlook Fall 1999, Piled Higher and Deeper by Edwin S. Rubenstein http://www.colosseumbuilders.com/Guild/h1b/library/shortage/amo1999fallmyth.htm

How and Why Government, Universities, and Industry Create Domestic Labor Shortages of Scientists and High-Tech Workers by Eric Weinstein, Ph.D. http://nber.nber.org/~peat/PapersFolder/Papers/SG/NSF.html

What Scientist Shortage? By Daniel S. Greenberg Wednesday, May 19, 2004; Page A23 The Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38006-2004May18.html

Finally, see the research of UC Davis Professor Norm Matloff. http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/h1b.html

Note the draft of my 5 August 1999 Oral Testimony critical of the controversial H-1B visa program before the House Immigration and Claims Subcommittee, in particular the final two paragraphs

I was able to get "on the record" in the case USA v Abramoff. I attended Jack Abramoff's sentencing hearing on 4 September 2008 at the DC District Courthouse. My 110 page "Victim Impact Statement" is document #40 in the Court docket in PDF format. http://tinyurl.com/koyqg2

Jack Abramoff served as a Microsoft lobbyist – and also directed “Team Abramoff.” The team likely helped Microsoft steer about $100 million dollars in politically-connected expenses by Microsoft and its proxies from 1995-2000. During the same period, Microsoft was able to procure 3 “Microsoft-friendly” changes to H-1B Visa legislation. The cumulative financial benefit to the firm has been billions of dollars in profits.

Millions of American citizen technical professionals have been harmed by having their careers destroyed since the H-1B Visa was created by employer lobbying in 1990. In my opinion, the H-1B Visa law should be repealed as an example of “Bad Law.”

I got a call yesterday from Jay Palmer, the plaintiff in the Alabama suit whose feeding of information to the federal government presumably led to the criminal case in Dallas. I also heard from Palmer's lawyer in the case, as well as from several others. I suspect some more interesting news will be forthcoming. Best, Don Bauder

I was going to touch on the Abramoff/Microsoft connection, but ran out of room. Best, Don Bauder

Dear Don: Thank you for writing this piece when so so so many in the mainstream media are ignoring this issue, this topic. And the we have most of the Congress, most of the presidential candidates touting the need for more foreign skilled workers.

here's the mantra:
"The goal is NOT to Find and American worker!" http://www.youtube.com/programmersguild

And there is now even protest songs!!! http://www.complex-numbers.com/home/dog-one.html Lap of Luxury (The H-1B Song) http://www.complex-numbers.com/home/dog-one.html LYRICS: http://www.complex-numbers.com/home/laplux.html

but then
The scandal you are not hearing about: http://www.etherzone.com/2002/jack102102.shtml removed but posted at http://www.americanreformation.org/Articles/GlennJackson/EnronandH1BVisas.htm

Is Anybody out there? Is Anybody listening? www.rense.com/general35/wakeupNHwakeup.htm

There more more [much more] to the story! I'm hoping you cover it!

Jim Crow in Silicon Valley is Exposed http://www.eiass.com/Article-JimCrowe.html Where is the outrage ???

It's the old story: Congress, the administration, and the bureaucracy are in the pockets of large corporations and Wall Street. If big companies say that there is a shortage of American engineers, the pols and crats automatically believe it. They can't see any money rolling in if they actually do research on the topic. If IBM says it, it's true. Crinkle, crinkle. Best, Don Bauder

"The goal is NOT to Find and American worker!" http://www.youtube.com/programmersguild

but then The scandal you are not hearing about: http://www.etherzone.com/2002/jack102102.shtml removed but posted at http://www.americanreformation.org/Articles/GlennJackson/EnronandH1BVisas.htm

Is Anybody out there? Is Anybody listening? www.rense.com/general35/wakeupNHwakeup.htm

There more more [much more] to the story! I'm hoping you cover it!

Jim Crow in Silicon Valley is Exposed http://www.eiass.com/Article-JimCrowe.html

You are correct: the bedrock assumption between the H-1B program, and the lobbying to broaden it, is the untrue notion that there is a shortage of engineers in America. Best, Don Bauder

Jim Crow? IT in Silicon Valley is 90% foreign workers. Indians, Chinese, Arabs, Vietnamese, you name it. The under-represented group is whites, if anyone. Maybe we should mention that there are too many blacks in the NBA and too many Japanese people making cars.

Thank you for this story Don. I have been fighting the H-1B frauds for 20 years.

Often it takes 20 years or more to get anybody to listen. Best, Don Bauder

In 1989 when I was an engineer at McDonnell-Douglas (now Boeing) in Long Beach, they started bringing in workers on H-1B visa. I brought an action with the U.S. Department of Labor. They investigated it and dropped it.

In 1999, I worked with an H-1B in a Seattle Fortune 100 company. She didn’t know anything. She went around asking everyone questions about how to do things. I swear her “master degree” was a fraudulent document. The only reason she was in the U.S. was that her husband, also an H-1B worked for Microsoft. I guess it was a package deal.

In 2000, hating the rain, I left Seattle and returned to San Diego. I worked for a large company and had a charge placed with me, an H-1B programmer. Later there was a lay off and 10 American were let go, but the H-1B worker was retained. I asked management why. Because they said, they paid too much to get her and they “felt sorry that she would be deported if she didn’t have a job.” Boo hoo. In addition, she didn’t know what she was doing either.

I have abandoned a career in IT because the jobs are scarce; the wages are stagnant and falling. People I know make the same today as they did a decade ago. Most new hires are in India at campuses built by Intel, IBM, Qualcomm, Motorola, Cisco, Apple, Microsoft and most other tech companies. It is treasonous.

In my personal emails and phone calls, I am hearing about H-1Bs who were incompetent. Best, Don Bauder

In fact, nearly ALL H-1Bs are incompetent. Average IQ in India is 81. Average American IQ is 98. I worked in software for 16 years including at Apple and Sony before being run out of CA by MILLIONS of these faking frauds. Anyone can buy a PhD for $300 in Punjab (google it). IIT is ranked 350th among world universities. IIT cannot even get accreditation. I've worked with these people and they had to question me constantly "What is byte swapping"? "Why does it crash on your machine but not mine?" These people are idiots. Even after you show them how to do something they can't produce anything that works or can be sold. We have imported MILLIONS of these people since 1998 and they have destroyed our companies. H-1B has nothing to do with "talent", what it REALLY is is an international socialist JOB TRAINING PROGRAM - so that the tech and skills Americans created can be transferred to the lazy countries in the name of "economic development". BTW, the OECD did a study of students the world over last month and students in India ranked SECOND FROM LAST in the world in math & sci.

If I'm not mistaken, the idea of educating foreign workers in American universities and colleges was to allow those new graduates returning to their country with the skills and and knowledge needed to assist in improving the standard of living in their own countries?

That may have been the original mission, but it would appear that it has gone by the boards. Another noble idea consumed by greed. Best, Don Bauder

The H-1B program actually creates a "brain drain" from developing countries. Taking their best and brightest" to work here. H-1B program actually hurts the homeland of the visa applicant.

Destroys huge numbers of brains in America as well, as America's best and brightest, despite sending resumes by the thousands to companies like Qualcomm, Microsoft, etc., don't even receive the courtesy of a response or professional treatment by such employers.

Its not unheard of to talk to veterans in the industry and find that domestic grads mostly haven't been hired in over a decade. Qualcomm, Microsoft, and Google HR receive thousands of resumes for each position. A lot of guys are falling through the cracks.

Are citizen (products of the US school system and culture) unemployable? I don't know, but I have dark suspicions that the gentleman might be right. "We" have developed a culture so mired in bullshit, so obsessed with "degrees" and other hype, that "we" really BELIEVE that we can skate through, cheat through, and credential our way to success with scarcely a thought of substance.

Nobody ever said American colleges and universities are flawless. They aren't. But I can't imagine they are that bad. Best, Don Bauder

31.Nobody ever said American colleges and universities are flawless. They aren't. But I can't imagine they are that bad

Sorry, America has the best colleges in the world, in fact no one else even comes close.

Education is one area we will never lose the edge it-it is our culture of entrepreneurship that drives this IMO.

The last paragraph of my column mentions that foreign-born students account for 42% of engineering Master's and 53% of engineering PhDs at US universities. If our universities are that bad, why do they attract so many foreign students? Best, Don Bauder

I said "the school system." And the culture of certification. We are brought up (or not brought up) to lie, cheat, and plagiarize our way to "success." Just ask any professor who has taught a freshman class.

When generalizations are countered with generalizations, what's missing?

Yes, Americans lie, cheat, and plagiarize. But I think professors will tell you that foreign students do, too. Indeed, it seems to be part of some cultures. Best, Don Bauder

Yes, students will be students, and deception is firmly ingrained in some cultures. But what we are talking about is whether or not our school system is PREDOMINANTLY turning out students who know how to study and work hard, or a bunch of bsers?

Just how perfect or flawed IS our school system? What should be done and not done?

I disagree with ANY presumption that many/majority/most American Students cheat.

This country has the greatest education and entrepreneur system in the world, we are the undisputed leaders and it is a part of, ingrained in our culture. CULTURE! Our innovative technology industry proves and really drives that point home.

There is only one Apply computer and it is here in America. Microsoft the world leader in OS-here in America. We have these companies b/c of our innovation and creativity-it is our culture.

It is one reason we are still a super power, although other countries are catching up to us.

Yup. That's the bubble we're riding on. We are very busy admiring ourselves in the mirror, forgetting what got us there, ignoring the signs of degradation, the trend that leads us closer and closer to the vortex, the drain hole.

Just as we have hollowed out our industrial capabilities, selling out our birthrights, the essential talents upon which they were built (e.g. machinist-artists, and our best engineers) for a mess of cheap trinketry, we are selling out the intellectual components that made up the flint for that iron.

We are in the process of abandoning that cultural birthright, and more disciplined cultures are filling the void. Postwar Japan outstripped us in many ways, but that was just a shot across the bow. The same phenomenon on a much larger scale is "happening" now, but we are paying no attention to the symptoms. Our culture has transmogrified into a bunch of hedgers, funding themselves and de-funding our culture.

But it's different now. Context is everything. The Internet and the communication revolution have put tools in the hands of the masses, and they're going to transform the world (sorry, it's too late for any kind of gentle transition).

Hear the song of the Arab spring, the cries that echo for change "all over this world?" Goon squads writ large are at this moment slaughtering citizens in Syria and elsewhere, and the tsunami is sucking at our shores. Our "Hitlers" and "storm-troopers" are now being nurtured to control our own "masses," and we will wait until that knock, that missile, hits our own door before we wake up to the trend.

Ever try to verify the academic credentials of an Indian or Chinese national? At least in the U.S. we have ways to check, like Studentclearninghouse.com and other sources.

There is so much money to be made, that corruption is abundant in the fake document, falsified transcripts and other academic documents. The other side of the coin is that fake titles are used to bring H-1B’s over. The visa says “computer programmer” but the job they actually wind up doing is a factory job.

The majority of H-1B applicants also do not leave the U.S. after 6 years. They remain and then bring their extended families over under the “family reunification act.” So the H-1B is just a backdoor immigration scam and is unfair to those who lawfully wait for immigration.

Yes, and our political leaders have known about the visa system corruption for a long time. They don't do anything because big business tells them to look the other way, and when they turn their head, lobbyists stuff bills into their pocket (figuratively, of course). Best, Don Bauder

I think having a large number of H1-B workers is a shortsighted policy for the country. In the short run it benefits companies like QCOM who can hire better workers for less money. In the long run, many of the temporary workers will return to their native countries and bring their expertise with them. This is already helping to foster high-tech centers in many other countries - which will compete with the U.S. Also, the additional competition for employment obviously lowers the wages of U.S. engineers - which will serve to discourage young American students from becoming engineers.

On the one hand, I think that allowing and encouraging high-tech workers who wish to immigrate here for permanent residence would be a good thing. But the H1-B program only seems to serve the short-term goals of companies like QCOM. In the long run it seems like these programs will tend to lessen or even America's technical superiority.

33.I think having a large number of H1-B workers is a shortsighted policy for the country. In the short run it benefits companies like QCOM who can hire better workers for less money. In the long run, many of the temporary workers will return to their native countries and bring their expertise with them.

You just summarized the problem most of us here have been railing on for the last few years. IMO the program is a total scam and is destroying the country-as are many things that are short sighted, cater to special interests and no one else.

It's not just H-1B destroying the country. After World War II, we developed stakeholder capitalism: boards of directors were responsive to employees, communities, vendors, etc. as well as to shareholders. In the 1980s we moved to shareholder capitalism: the only constituency that boards cared about were shareholders, particularly the big ones. This mentality has been at the heart of the destruction of the middle class and the vast gap between superrich and others. Corporate brass wonder why their domestic markets have dried up; they have only themselves to blame. But they are too dense to see the destruction they have wrought. The H-1B program is just part of this puzzle. Best, Don Bauder

There are good arguments pro and con the H-1B program. However, one thing is certain to me: American corporations rely on this program to bolster short term profits so top management pay can become even more ridiculous. In short, H-1B is rooted in greed -- the notion that quarterly profits must be jacked up at any cost. It's America's plague. Best, Don Bauder

The H-1B’s that “return” to their homeland are usually just returning to accept a management or senior position for the very U.S. company that hired them with the visa. The U.S. is a training ground alright, but the one that do return (and a majority never leave) are going to work for their companies counter-part in a campus in India or China. In other words, the H1B that Qualcomm hires and goes back to India, typically works at a Qualcomm facility overseas.

Yes, many of the H-1Bs who go back go with a subsidiary of the company they worked for, or work for a body shop that sent them to the U.S. If they work for a foreign subsidiary of the U.S. company that had them, they can come back under the L-1 program. Best, Don Bauder

Top quartile graduate from EE/CS, from a top-20 school. Sent my resume to Qualcomm on numerous occasions after I graduated, as a Citizen. Never heard back from them. Why this company is allowed to bring in guest workers or foreigners, while domestic talent (like myself) doesn't receive even so much as the courtesy of a response, is, to say the least, troubling.

It is hard to imagine that Qualcomm is really trying to hire domestic grads when guys like me, despite being qualified for their positions at the entry-level, don't even receive the courtesy of responses, basic testing, or interviews. Qualcomm has essentially created a system of racial apartheid in their workforce, where race, not merit, determines who gets interviews and who gets hired. It really is quite disgusting and is tearing at the social fabric of the nation, to have our best and brightest unemployed.

If Qualcomm didn't even reply to your resume, the company should have to give an explanation. Qualcomm moves a lot of people from India to here, back to India where the company has a large operation, and then back again under another visa arrangement. Best, Don Bauder

If you check out


It should be quite clear that Qualcomm's use of the H-1B visa is accelerating quite dramatically. 6812 visas in the 2001-2011 timeframe, yet 1226 of those in 2011 alone.

Qualcomm has been publicly stating that the visa restrictions should be loosened. Best, Don Bauder

What happened to putting the author's, reporter's, columnist's name with the column? I come here to read Bauder's column, is this some dumbass marketing trick?

My name is at the beginning of the column in the form of a byline. Best, Don Bauder

What happened to putting the author's, reporter's, columnist's name with the column? I come here to read Bauder's column, is this some dumb #ss marketing trick?

I don't see that my name has been dropped, but if authors' names have been dropped elsewhere, I am sure it's an error or computer glitch. I can't see how it would be a marketing gimmick. Best, Don Bauder

One of the best ways to retaliate against these companies, Microsoft & Qualcomm who prefer to hire H1B’ , is NOT to purchase their products our use their services.

If you are going to boycott products of big H-1B users such as Microsoft, IBM, and Qualcomm, be sure to let the company know why you won't buy its products or use its services. Best, Don Bauder

An angle to consider on the H-1B abuse is from the foreign worker perspective. They are de facto indentured servants of their employers in many (if not most) cases. They want to be ehre and have the jobs they do that qualify for that. In that pursuit, they will work enormous uncompensated overtime, ignore any observed or endured abuse, and maintain fanatic loyalty to their employers. The employers know this full well and choose them over Americans because of it all, not because they categorically possess higher talent, education, or morale. Employers who quite routinely recruit through H-1B should be indicted as potential criminal abusers of the program. They offshore to unregulated labor markets and then, where work must be condicted oon our shores, bypass the locals for easil abused and cheap foreigners. This is not just among engineers and technicians but also look at places like HMOs.

Definitely, the words "indentured servant" are used to describe the H-1Bs. Of course, would you rather be an American engineer who is unemployed, or an Indian H-1B who at least is working? Best, Don Bauder

jcSS, what you have stated is 100% true, which is what we ALL have stated here over and over again.

The main reason we have this H-1B visa scam is to line the profits of Big Business at the expense of our Country, and the middle class (and by extension the poor).

We all know that and it is obvious MOST people here-and I would say most of America- agrees with you/us. The question is how the heck are we going to fix this mess?????? The country is ruled by special interest, aka BigBusiness, aka Public Unions, because they have the money.

How do we get the control back??

I think we may have lost control and we are on a downhill slope to poverty.

As I have said so many times, beginning in the 1980s, corporations began massively shipping U.S. jobs overseas to take advantage of low- and slave-wage labor, and also brought in cheaper foreign help, such as through the H-1B program. The motivation was greed: jack up short term profits that justified increasingly insane top executive remuneration. All this exacerbated the uneven wealth and income distribution. Now the middle class is evanescing. Executives are scratching their heads and wondering where their markets -- the middle class -- went. The executives have nobody to blame but themselves. At the root of this is the notion that the only constituency of the board is the shareholder; this mentality came on heavily in the 1980s. In earlier years, capitalism worked, and the middle class thrived, when we had stakeholder capitalism: companies were responsive to employees, communities, vendors and other publics -- not just shareholders. But greed killed the form of capitalism that worked very well. Best, Don Bauder

Greed killed the form of capitalism that worked very well? What is capitalism without greed?

I never saw a law that ever said that a board had a fiduciary responsibility to employees, communities,vendors, and other "publics." Please give me a link to that old law:)

I don't know that there was such a law, and never implied that there was. But without a doubt, corporations from the end of World War II to around 1980 did keep other constituencies other than shareholders in mind. It worked very well and helped keep a prosperous middle class that provided markets to our corporations. I am glad you mentioned law, because you can make a case that shareholder capitalism (shareholders the board's only constituency) is embedded in Delaware law, and that tells the tale for much of the U.S. Best, Don Bauder

Excellent reply Don.

Making money is the American way of life, and greed is not in and of itself bad, not at all, but when the country starts getting destroyed by a playing field that is not above board, level or fair as a result of greed gone wold then that is where the problem starts, and sooner or later will end- and not in a good way.

What business executives must learn -- and I fear they won't -- is that their own greed has fouled their own nest by whacking the middle class and lifting only the top 1 to 3%. These execs have fouled businesses' nest for several decades to come. Best, Don Bauder

Data shows that the gap between rich and everyone else was much wider in 1928, 1915, 1885, 1849, and on and on.

It’s called a social contract. That unwritten agreement that a society will take care of its participants. Society is, after all, an extension of the village, which is an extension of family.

What is happening is the super-rich are taking all the spoils and expecting all of the benefits to continue. They don’t realize that sucking the air supply out of the middle class is going to come back and bite them because there will be so little purchasing power that the economy will collapse. Leaving the super-rich with nobody willing to trim their toenails, color their hair, detail their car or shine their shoes. The consumer economy cannot exist in a world where disposable income has collapsed.

...And nobody to sell their companies' products to. Best, Don Bauder

60 Minutes ran a story tonight about the fraud an Indian academic committed at Duke University. The researched lied on his resume and credentials, even claiming he was a Rhoads Scholar. Dr. Anil Potti lied about cancer research which he claimed was the Holy Grail of discoveries, an 80% chance of curing cancer.

It doesn’t surprise me because, as I previously shared, I have been fighting the fraud of foreign nationals, particularly in the H-1B program, of false documents, fabricated transcripts, dishonest academic credentials and even entire academic institutions that don’t exist. They use shell companies that only operate as credential and transcript mills, duping recruiters and employers into believing the individual is indeed a graduate of an Indian university.

The massive fraud of the H1-B program only scratches the surface of a much larger body of deceptive practices used in other fields such as medical, academia and finance.

Dr. Gene Nelson, an expert on H-1B who has contributed to this blog, has been talking about that Duke fraud. I am glad to see that 60 Minutes is following such stories. Best, Don Bauder

It would be difficult to boycott companies because of their H-1B policies. First, most Americans have never heard of the H-1B visa controversy. Secondly, those products are integrated into most of our lives. Microsoft, Apple, IBM and Intel products are used in our everyday devices, workstations and embedded in home entertainment products.

Although I have called the practice “treasonous, “ it is government policy and competition which compel companies to exploit the H-1B loopholes. My mother worked for the EDD (when it was called Human Resources Development, or “HRD” before Gov. Reagan changed the name), she processed applications for foreign workers who were being brought to the U.S. in the 60’s and 70’s. However, at that time they truly were special people. They were sushi chefs, language translators, acupuncturists, highly specialized scientists and engineers. Today that program has morphed into bringing just about anybody over and is ripe for fraud. It is the policy that needs to be reformed. The program needs oversight and a return to its fundamentals.

America is not going to bring back too many manufacturing jobs. I have read that our manufacturing output is higher now than ever and our productivity is high due to machines and robotics. So in the factory jobs, it is machines that have replaced people, not so much foreign labor or outsourcing. The white collar occupations are not far behind being disrupted by technology. Technology is a double-sided sword. It brings new and welcome advances while it also can displace employees. It has been that way for hundreds of years. The Spanish swiftly conquered the Aztecs because of technology; horses, guns and steel.

I don’t have an answer for the problem, but I know there is a lot of anger when foreigners are brought over to take jobs. My firsthand experience was dealing with people I felt had been placed in jobs with exaggerated claims of their skills. Those H-1B’s that are no better qualified for the job than a resident American does need to be stopped. I interpret the employers cry that “we cannot find enough qualified candidates” to really mean “we cannot find enough qualified candidates willing to work for what we are inclined to pay.”

Government policy and competition may be two reasons for the abuses of the H-1B programs (and related ones), but the main reason is GREED: lowering costs to jack up short term profits, thus running up the stock, sating Wall Street's lust, and justifying outrageous top management compensation. Best, Don Bauder

A related story that finally received wide coverage when 60 minutes covered the research frauds of Anil Potti on 12 February 2012 in a story titled, "Deception at Duke." Anil used to be a medical researcher at Duke University. He is now a lawsuit defendant. There were excellent articles also published on this topic by Gina Kolata in the New York Times on 07 July 2011 and The Economist Newspaper on 10 September 2011.

I do not believe this to be an isolated incident. Here is an example of how cheating is embedded in the culture of India.


Ocala Star-Banner, Wednesday, June 1, 1994 Page 7A

Indian Students Riot Over Exams; 4 killed

NEW DELHI, India - Four students reportedly were killed Tuesday when college freshmen clashed with police who tried to stop them from cheating on exams.

The melee occurred in the town of Dalsingsarai in Bihar state after the students opened their books and notes during finals, Press Trust of India said.

The students threw explosives at a government jeep and tried to set fire to the railway station. Police opened fire, killing four of them, the news agency said.

Students in Bihar maintain they need their books and notes because they have been so poorly taught.

The real tragedy is that these foreign students are benefitting from U.S. government programs (the H-1B and L-1 Visa programs) that facilitate the permanent displacement of experienced and qualified American citizen technical and medical professionals by these younger, imported workers. This "internal brain drain" means that Americans are sacrificed on the altar of "increased profits." I hope that this insanity is halted soon.

Everything these days is sacrificed on the altar of short term profits. That's greasing the slippery slope. Best, Don Bauder

Any culture is composed of both greed (egocentrism) and social mores. The former is based on deception and coercion; the latter on cooperation.

Homo sapiens is a relatively weak creature as animals go, and without a brain that recognized the value of cooperation would have long gone entirely extinct (well, only one is left of the genus Homo). The cooperative “model” sufficed to prevent extinction for about, say, 190,000 years or so (as far as we think we know), but about 10,000 years ago, the “seeds” of a shift in behavior toward greed started to grow, and this transformation toward a culture of greed has steadily (and lately exponentially) grown, resulting in all sorts of “booms,” in population, real estate, credit, you name it.

Anyway, social mores (sometimes erroneously called “unwritten laws”) have steadily been eroded by an increasingly stronger ratio of greed/coercion to cooperation, such that the latter force, cooperation, has been eroded by the former force, greed/coercion. The trouble is, culture/greed feeds upon the cooperative nature of social traditions and attitudes. It is a profound case of the seeds of collapse being sown by success (beyond the wildest of dreams). Parasites which consume all (or too much) of their prey, eventually crash. Their bubble bursts.

In response to (among others): By Ponzi 9:52 p.m., Feb 13, 2012

Mankind may have had 10,000 years of greed, but it escalated wildly in the last 30 years, in the U.S. and other industrialized nations. Best, Don Bauder

Here's the word from "Dragon Lady" Elaine Chao, who served as the Secretary of Labor in the second Bush administration. Eliane is the wife of the Senate Minority Leader, Mitch McConnell.

The DOL's Strategic Plan, Fiscal Years 2006-2011 (pg. 35) states: "...H-1B workers may be hired even when a qualified U.S. worker wants the job, and a U.S. worker can be displaced from the job in favor of the foreign worker." (In fact, the U.S. worker may be required to train the foreign worker as a condition of receiving their meager outplacement benefit. The U.S. worker is also extorted into silence by being forced to sign an agreement to not disclose their ex-employer's conduct under the threat of a lawsuit.)

I doubt there is any other industrialized nation that has such a policy to harm the career interests of its experienced technical professionals. As noted elsewhere on this page, this policy is likely the result of "the best government money can buy."

Gene, it's always been my understanding that under U.S. law, H-1Bs are not supposed to take jobs from U.S. citizens, or depress U.S. wage levels. This is new to me, and shocking. Best, Don Bauder

Dan: It is one of the loopholes in the present law. The U.S. workforce protections that were in the H-1B Visa legislation were removed by the first Bush administration shortly after the law was passed. Senator Alan Simpson of Wyoming attempted to include the U.S. workforce protections in his legislation that was introduced in 1996. Microsoft Corporation became aware that Simpson's initiative was very close to enactment and activated a "full court press" to stop Simpson's legislation in its tracks. Who did Microsoft use? Corrupt lobbyist Jack A. Abramoff and his team. You may read about it in the August, 1996 Wired article, "Do You Know the Way to Ban Jose?" - the article is found by using the article title as a search phrase. Additional details are found in the PDF version of my 2007 article, "The Greedy Gates Immigration Gambit."

Gene, I knew about the Microsoft/Abramoff connection but did not know that the topic at hand was creating this stunning loophole. This deserves more coverage. Best, Don Bauder

Don: I strongly agree! Since 2007, I have been working hard to obtain more coverage. I'd be pleased to share my files with you.

You're on, Gene. I will be back to you. Best, Don Bauder

The U.S. workforce protections that were in the H-1B Visa legislation were removed by the first Bush administration shortly after the law was passed.

See, I just don't get this.

Why would the government do things to destroy the social fabric of our country, our economy????

I know they get Bug $$$$ from Big Business to do this, but at some point the money should not be a factor, the health of the country should be.

Because they can. Because when the lake is full, nobody sees the boots, tires, sunken row boats and tree stumps. When the lake is becoming dry, they start to pay attention and wonder why the lake has all this crap in it. When people are employed, they just go about their lives. When there are 1 out of 10 without a job, they see the junk and they start to become aware.

This H1-B fraud has been going on over 25 years. It gets more abuse every year. Those “masters degrees” are fake or from a very myopic education. The promise of cheap labor generally backfires with spaghetti code, late and malfunctioning deliverables, and then blame on the American project managers because they can’t “manage” the unqualified developers they inherit. Others endure the humiliation of training their replacements.

The lobbyists are in bed with the high technology companies. The companies want cheap labor to stymie wage growth, and the Indian lobbyists want to land their nationals in our technology havens. Programmers and engineers are unorganized and so they are atomized and don’t have a unified voice to tell Washington what’s going on. And Washington will hold a hearing once in a while, and then you never hear of it again.

I hate to keep repeating myself, but as we learn from advertising, repetition is necessary if the message is to sink in. Corporations today care only about shareholders. They don't give a hoot for employees, communities, vendors, the society in which they live (because top managers live in gated communities and they work in offices walled off from their own employees). All management wants is more profit each quarter so Wall Street will run the stock up and top management can be rewarded with even more absurdly high pay. The H-1B abuses are a result of that mentality -- ditto building the building of plants overseas. We have destroyed our middle class, and thus the markets of these fools at the top. Best, Don Bauder

You have written often about the Citizens United case. This horrendous decision will cause even more disgraces such as the removal of workforce protections originally written into H-1B legislation. The high court and Mitt Romney tell us corporations are people: yes, greedy, vicious, profit-obsessed people who care nothing about the health of the country or their communities. Best, Don Bauder

The high court and Mitt Romney tell us corporations are people: yes, greedy, vicious, profit-obsessed people who care nothing about the health of the country or their communities

Corps are NOT people, and the sorry history of how that came into play is a sad story indeed;

"Unequal Protection: How Corporations Became "People" - And How You Can Fight Back"


Nothing is going to change. The offices I see around here are just filled wall-to-wall with kids from India. They all have master's degrees in EE and CS and resumés filled with all the latest buzzwords yet 99% of them can't answer basic questions about the technology they've been brought in to work on. While some are certainly able to do coding most of them have huge holes in their knowledge at a fundamental level. Frequently the "fixes" they implement are just patches or workarounds that hide the underlying problem which they either aren't able or willing to dig and find. There are some great ones in the groups I see but they are few and far between. All of the managers are under pressure to just hire wipro or infosys contractors because they have friends in high places in these companies. I don't know if there are kickbacks involved, it may just be the good-old-boy system in operation. Often a Duh-merican will be put in a "lead" role having to manage a team of H-1B contractors. The project always ends up being late and full of bugs, and the Duh-merican gets laid off while the H-1Bs stay and the next Duh-merican patsy is placed on the dunk tank chair.

Most of these companies importing tons of H-1Bs and doing all of this outsourcing are just falling apart. They are rotting from the inside, unable to innovate or create and just barely hanging on while hemorrhaging cash and being pilfered by their crooked boards . Meanwhile Apple is cleaning the floor with the entire industry and they barely use any outsourcing or H-1Bs. I love it!

I could care less at this point, I have been watching this for 20 years, it just makes me laugh now. I advise everyone in decision-making positions in the tech industry that I talk to to outsource as much as they can to India as fast as possible. If they are stupid enough to listen to me (and they always are) they deserve what is going to happen to them. I am going to really enjoy seeing all of these middle-managers and immigration lawyers out begging for jobs once the US tech industry has been completely eviscerated and we are demoted to the third world status that we deserve.

Listen, I have nothing against these Indian kids, heck I like 'em! If I were in their shoes I'd be doing the same thing. But their motivation is totally different than the motivation of guys who create great companies like Apple. The H-1Bs aren't in it because they love their work, they are in it for the $. Guys like Steve Wozniak would be soldering boards and writing code even if they weren't getting paid for it -- heck he probably still is! I have never met one of these Indian kids (and I've known hundreds) like that. They are just doing what they have to do to better their situation -- and good for them! Strip-mine this rotten dump and send it to the trash-heap of failed empires where it belongs.

Apple Inc has filed 2570 labor condition applications for H-1B visa and 618 labor certifications for green card since 2001, ranked 74 among all visa sponsors.

Please do your research.

. http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Apple/40571_Location.htm .

Hmmm, it is worse than I thought but still they are nothing compared to Qualcomm:

Qualcomm - Market Cap $105B, 6812 applications 2001-2011, average salary $101,446

Apple - Market Cap $468B, 2570 applications 2001-20011, average salary $121,415

Apple's market cap is more than 4X Qualcomm's yet their H-1B applications are nearly 1/3 of QC's. Also the average salary at Apple is higher but maybe that's just the Bay Area distortion.

Also keep in mind that you're not going to see a lot of the real numbers because many of the workers are going to be from Wipro, Tata, Infosys and the like on L-1s as well as H-1Bs. Many companies (not Apple AFAIK) are using tons of these people, that is mostly what I am seeing here -- not direct hires but contract employees through one of the big Indian body shops.

Apple is a unique company. They have a cult-like following that will pay premium prices for their products. Due to their proprietary products, savvy marketing and rich gross margins; they don’t have to compete as fiercely face-to-face like the open source markets. That’s my opinion. In addition to the fact that Steve Jobs ran the company with an iron fist and paid attention to every detail. He probably, better than anyone in Silicon Valley, knew the perils and folly of the Indian outsourcing trend.

In the future there may be no more Wozniaks and Jobs because middle class families such as the ones they came from will no longer exist in the numbers necessary to foster the development of that sort of talent and insight. Their heroes were Hewlett and Packard, guys who had started a business in their garage. Now the kids will all just want to make the next twitter, get zillions at the IPO and retire on their private islands rather than create a great and influential company.

I, for one, am looking forward to our future as an impoverished third world country ruled over by a tiny uncaring elite and a ruthless police state. I have always enjoyed visiting these sorts of places, now the experience will be coming to me! That's fortunate since I probably won't be able to afford travel or vacations in the future anyway.

I, for one, am looking forward to our future as an impoverished third world country ruled over by a tiny uncaring elite and a ruthless police state


We are there right now-we resemble a Banana Republic more than the America of the 1940/50/60's.

Yes, a BANANA REPUBLIC where there is no middle class, just a handful of rich families at the top and everyone else at the bottom trying to survive

Sort of like Mexico where in a country of 110 million people 50 families control 90% of the countries wealth. That is America today except the 50 families are the top 30K citizens.

You can make the argument that we are already a third world country. And you HAVE made the argument before, SP. I don't think we are there yet, but we can always disagree. Best, Don Bauder

Did you see "60 Minutes" last night??? SCORES of well educated (4 year college degree) professionals out of work for 2, 3 4 or more years????

And those are COLLEGE educated professionals, not GED or HS grads out of work-nothing, zilch, nada.

If you're one of the 22% of Californians who are unemployed or working part time at minimum wage with no benefits and living in your car then America IS indeed a 3rd world country-how is it any different from Iran, China or North Korea under such circumstances- IMO.

I live with a recently retired professor (an old, established, expensive, private university). Most of the "students" are incompetent, ill-prepared, spoiled lout-mouths--when they deign to attend class. They are partying their way through to a degree--CERTIFICATION, not COMPETENCE. Hell, most of 'em can't even write a coherent sentence in the English language as well as their ESL counterparts who eagerly work at becoming competent.

Twister- all I can say is I strongly disagree with you on this issue. Our universities are tough, demanding and in most cases extremely hard to be accepted into.

You are correct, Cornholio, that as the middle class is strangulated by top managements that live for short-term profits, there may well be fewer Wozniaks and Jobs emerging. Best, Don Bauder

Apple represents true capitalism. I will always remember the reaction of Occupy protesters when Jobs died. They praised him lavishly. The Occupy folks were protesting shareholder-obsessed, paper-shuffling capitalism such as we practice today. They were respectful of entrepreneurs who pioneered PRODUCTS, not pioneered inscrutable new derivatives. Best, Don Bauder

I tend to agree with you. I started my first business in my parent’s garage fixing CB radios. Then I worked fixing electronics equipment on the San Diego tuna fleet owned by Pan Pacific. We could start businesses out of our garage then. Started an Apple dealership for $20,000. You can’t do those things these days. The barriers to entry are too high. A Subway sandwich franchise requires a $250K investment.
Twitter and Facebook, are like the build-it-yourself S-100 or other computers of the 80’s. Not sure what the real world on the pavement value of Facebook is, but I will not be buying Facebook or Yelp stock because I think Google can thwart those plays. Google is to the internet, what Microsoft was to the desktop.

Winner takes all economy. You are a Republican, a Democrat or Awake.

America 2012 is prerevolutionary. Such fear being reported from think-tank’s, the Federal government coordinated with big city mayors on how to shut down Occupy Wall Street.

There are other reasons not to buy Facebook stock. IPOs are normally rigged to enrich the insiders. In a wild market, they may triple and quadruple the first day. That's a sign of a coming crash a la the late 1990s. And you are right: the attack on the Occupy people was coordinated by the federal government with big city mayors. It was disgraceful. Best, Don Bauder

Any tech IPO is dangerous-just look at Myspace.com, the original social network.

I don't recall that Myspace ever had an IPO. Rupert Murdoch bought it for about $ 1/2 Billion a couple of years after it started. So in that sense, some of the people did get rich. Justin Timberlake and some other investors just bought it from Murdoch last year for about $35 million. BTW, according to wiki, the guys who started myspace modeled it after Friendster, which was started as a social network in 2002 and is generally considered the original. Don't know much about it other than Google tried to buy it for about $50 million a year after it started and they got turned down. Big mistake, I guess.

I don't know if they had an IPO either, but their stock value/market capitalization went from one of the hottest tech stocks to almost valueless, in a very short time frame.

And yes "Friendster" was the original sopcial network...

According to wikipedia, the valuation of Myspace when Murdoch bought them in 2005 was $327million and when Murdoch tried to merge it with Yahoo in 2007 it was valued at $12billion. Not too shabby. was surprised to learn that it took Facebook until mid 2008 to surpass Myspace. Our oldest daughter was at UCLA and our youngest in HS when Myspace first became popular and were using constantly. But nothing like they do with Facebook. We'll have to seee what happens with their IPO, but I would be suprised if it didn't go as well as expected, if not better.

But what is myspace worth today? You mentioned $35 million, if that is accurate then the fluctuation is beyond comprehension.....

I have no idea what myspace is worth. the $35million is what it sold for last year. But think about it. It went from start-up to $12 billion in valuation between 2003-2007 and in just about the same time period, 2007-2011 went from that $12 billion valuation to being sold for $35 million. Like you said, up to the top and then back down in a relatively short period of time.

That's good comparative information on Qualcomm and Apple, Cornholio. Apple utilizes the H-1B program but hardly to the extent that Qualcomm, IBM, Microsoft and others do. Best, Don Bauder

Yes, but Apple is the largest U.S. company by capitalization. No. 1 ranks 74th. Not bad. Best, Don Bauder

85.Nothing is going to change. The offices I see around here are just filled wall-to-wall with kids from India. They all have master's degrees in EE and CS and resumés filled with all the latest buzzwords yet 99% of them can't answer basic questions about the technology they've been brought in to work on. While some are certainly able to do coding most of them have huge holes in their knowledge at a fundamental level. Frequently the "fixes" they implement are just patches or workarounds that hide the underlying problem which they either aren't able or willing to dig and find

If this is indeed true-and I have every reason to believe it is-then it is just a matter of time before the market self corrects and a SMART COMPANY sees these issues and puts Americans back to work. I have said it before, NO ONE can touch this country on education, especially at the university level. It is our entrepreneur spirit and creativity that drives our innovation and that I think has not been able to be duplicated anywhere in the world except here.

In 1991/1992 Ross Perot was all over this issue-back then it was NAFTA opposition. Lou Dobbs has been all over the H-1B visa issue for the last 5-10 years, although I have not seen him address it since he has been on Fox News Channel the last few months. Donald Trump-who has the biggest mouth and ego I have ever seen-even gets it and has been all over the outsourcing of jobs issue the last few years also.

Our country is crumbling and I suspect someone like a Perot, Dobbs or Trump will eventually be elected and turn things around, otherwise our country will not survive. The Tea Party and Occupy movements are both grass roots movements that IMO have the same goals.

Both the T's and the Occ's are considered expnedable--and they sense it. The biggest difference is that one group believes, much as the Shirts did under Hitler, that they can survive by subservience and hitching their waggen to the demagogues' stars. They will be the last to go . . .

Last to go or first to go, Twister? Best, Don Bauder

The first only because they are being used as goons to control the T's, then they will be "expended."

Oh dear. You mean I agree with Donald Trump on something? I feel dirty. But I won't change my views. Best, Don Bauder

I cannot STAND TRUMP, a loud mouth, over the top dork with an ego the size of Manhattan-biggest ego I have ever seen on ANYONE, but on this issue he is 100% correct-he is saying exactly what Ross Perot said in 1992 and they are both right.

Again, the root cause of this is management obsession with jacking up quarterly profits to please Wall Street. Best, Don Bauder

Country's. But never mind the small sh!t. We should, as should the rest of the world, adopt a kind of 21st century frugality--if we want to avoid a downward spiral into impoverishment and absolute corporate control by goon squads to keep the "surplus" masses they haven't gotten around to killing yet from storming the castles. Soylent Brown?

No, "Green" is right--this silly slogan is a marketing buzz word aimed at distracting the masses from the real issues, e.g. the exponentially rising demand and the diminishing supply, ever more costly to extract, particularly of natural resources to fund our extravagances. Fertilizer, my a$$!

The Affluenza pandemic is pumping up the mega-balloon . . .

Re: By SurfPuppy619 8:29 p.m., Feb 19, 2012

Frugality like the Greeks, Twister? Best, Don Bauder

That's poverty-in-the-making. Frugality is the antidote--or better yet, the preventative. For US too. The balloon has been punctured, and the genie from hell has been loosed, along with the dogs of war.

I have to chuckle when I read the European experts saying that under the new program, Greece must reduce its debt/GDP ration to 120.5. But the austerity measures will worsen Greece's current depression (not recession) and the debt/GDP ratio will likely rise. I tend to agree with the few commentators who say that the EU is trying to push Greece out. They may already have plans to oust Portugal, Spain and the other ailing puppies, but it's too early to say that.

All of this mess presents a great trading opportunity with the euro, but the real trading opportunity for the next 18 months lies in Japan's stock market Nikkei index. You heard it here first.

And the frugal horn has been blown. Best, Don Bauder

Agreed: the Greeks have a ridiculous welfare state. But the EU-mandated strangulation, under the guise of austerity, is the wrong medicine at the present time. The EU should have sized up the woes of Greece, Portugal, Ireland, Italy, and Spain several years ago and addressed the problems then. Best, Don Bauder

The job market for writers is very weak. Journalists, for example, have lost jobs en masse in the last six years or so. Therefore, employers can demand a lot of work for low pay. Incidentally, watch out for scams in your job searches. Best, Don Bauder

I guess I assumed incorrectly that you were looking for a position in your search. Best, Don Bauder

Pretty soon, we'll all be happy to pick tomatoes at lug rates 'till we drop, with plenty of starving ragamuffins waiting for us to do so they can replace us. The ratio of jobs to applicants at all levels is increasingly out of kilter. Prepare for the Nouveau-Dark Ages.

As one who has picked cotton, hoed goobers, and shoveled $hit for "a living," I can attest to misery and poverty. What is "Dirty Jobs" but preparing us for the demise of OSHA and other bleeding-heart liberal institutions. I just saw instructions for raising insects for protein yesterday. More preparations. Trial balloons? Vote? Elect? Passé. FINO! (Freedom in Name Only)

Twister: We'll pick tomatoes by day and have rotten tomatoes thrown at us at night. Best, Don Bauder

Partly because the Federal Reserve has decided its mission to run up the stock market through excessively low interest rates (short and long), the gap between the rich and the rest will continue to widen. Prepare to pick cotton. Best, Don Bauder

Ben Bernanke and Geitner both should have been fired years ago......both isiord, both destroying the country.

Both Bernanke and Geithner are tools of Wall Street. They are no help to Main Street. Bernanke is blatantly manipulating stocks. All he has to do is hint that the Fed will continue its low-interest rate policy, or state overtly that it will, and stocks rise. The Fed's official mandate is two-fold: keeping price stability and holding down unemployment. Running up stocks has never been part of its STATED duties. It was started by Greenspan. Best, Don Bauder

Bernanke is blatantly manipulating stocks. All he has to do is hint that the Fed will continue its low-interest rate policy, or state overtly that it will, and stocks rise

Yep, that is ALL he is there for. I agree 100%.

We need that clown to be tarred and feathered and run out of town IMO.

Yeah, but Wall Street loves him, and that's all the support he needs. Best, Don Bauder

For years and years Don Tenant argued loud and clear with American techies that there were no abuses of the visa programs, Americans were crybabies, blah blah blah. Only after the criminal InfoSys case surfaced did he change his tune. Corporate America likewise has been in denial about this. Now that CRIMINAL charges have been filed against a major Indian bodyshop EVERYONE in corporate America and India Inc. is freaking out because THEY ALL HAVE DIRT ON THEIR HANDS. These crimes against US citizens have been so pervasive, so entrenched, so commonplace in corporate America that there are thousands, maybe tens of thousands of people who are guilty of criminal fraud in abusing the visa programs and they KNOW IT. These corporate worms and the India Inc. hucksters are guilty as sin and now they are all terrified they are going to be found out. Indeed some of the perps in the InfoSys case have already fled the US back into deep recesses of India where they can never be found or prosecuted. If Corporate America is hiring Americans it is only because the execs are all scared to death now they will be found out and sent to prison for their actions. These crimes have been RAMPANT for 14 years and just now coming to the surface.

There are H-1B abuses to be sure, but I hardly think they rise to the level of criminality. Best, Don Bauder

Most Asian students cheat their way through collegeg and grad school. There are even companies in China that will take your SAT or GRE test for you. Google "Asia's rampant cheating problem".

Companies ruined or almost ruined by imported Indian labor

Adaptec - Indian CEO Subramanian Sundaresh fired. AIG (signed outsourcing deal in 2007 in Europe with Accenture Indian frauds, collapsed in 2009) AirBus (Qantas plane plunged 650 feet injuring passengers when its computer system written by India disengaged the auto-pilot). Apple - R&D CLOSED in India in 2006. Australia's National Australia Bank (Outsourced jobs to India in 2007, nationwide ATM and account failure in late 2010). Bell Labs (Arun Netravalli took over, closed, turned into a shopping mall) Boeing Dreamliner ES software (written by HCL, banned by FAA) Bristol-Myers-Squibb (Trade Secrets and documents stolen in U.S. by Indian national guest worker) Caymas - Startup run by Indian CEO, French director of dev, Chinese tech lead. Closed after 5 years of sucking VC out of America. Caterpillar misses earnings a mere 4 months after outsourcing to India, Inc. Circuit City - Outsourced all IT to Indian-run IBM and went bankrupt shortly thereafter. ComAir crew system run by 100% Indian IT workers caused the 12/25/05 U.S. airport shutdown when they used a short int instead of a long int Computer Associates - Former CEO Sanjay Kumar, an Indian national, sentenced to 12 years in federal prison for accounting fraud. Deloitte - 2010 - this Indian-packed consulting company is being sued under RICO fraud charges by Marin Country, California for a failed solution. Dell - call center (closed in India) Delta call centers (closed in India) Duke University - Massive scientific fraud by Indian national Dr. Anil Potti discovered in 2012. Fannie Mae - Hired large numbers of Indians, had to be bailed out. Indian logic bomb creator found guilty and sent to prison. Goldman Sachs - Kunil Shah, VP & Managing Director - GS had to be bailed out by US taxpayers for $550 BILLION. GM - Was booming in 2006, signed $300 million outsourcing deal with Wipro that same year, went bankrupt 3 years later HP - Got out of the PC hardware business in 2011 and can't compete with Apple's tablets. HP was taken over by Indians and Chinese in 2001. So much for 'Asian' talent!

You are making unjustified generalizations. Best, Don Bauder

Companies ruined or almost ruined by imported Indian labor - Part 2

HSBC ATMs (software taken over by Indians, failed in 2006) IBM bill collecting system for Austin, TX failed in 2012 written by Indians at IBM Intel Whitefield processor project (cancelled, Indian staff canned) JetStar Airways computer failure brings down Christchurch airport on 9/17/11. JetStar is owned by Quantas - which is know to have outsourced to India, Inc. Kodak: Outsourced to India in 2006, filed for bankruptcy in Jan, 2012. Lehman (Jasjit Bhattal ruined the company. Spectramind software bought by Wipro, ruined, trashed by Indian programmers) Medicare - Defrauded by Indian national doctor Arun Sharma & wife in the U.S. Microsoft - Employs over 35,000 H-1Bs. Stock used to be $100. Today it's lucky to be over $25. Not to mention that Vista thing. MIT Media Lab Asia (canceled) MyNines - A startup founded and run by Indian national Apar Kothari went belly up after throwing millions of America's VC $ down the drain. Nomura Securities - (In 2011 "struggling to compete on the world stage"). No wonder because Jasjit Bhattal formerly of failed Lehman ran it. See Lehman above. PeopleSoft (Taken over by Indians in 2000, collapsed). PepsiCo - Slides from #1 to #3 during Indian CEO Indra Nooyi' watch. Polycom - Former senior executive Sunil Bhalla charged with insider trading. Qantas - See AirBus above Quark (Alukah Kamar CEO, fired, lost 60% of its customers to Adobe because Indian-written QuarkExpress 6 was a failure) Rolls Royce (Sent aircraft engine work to India in 2006, engines delayed for Boeing 787, and failed on at least 2 Quantas planes in 2010, cost Rolls $500m). SAP - Same as Deloitte above in 2010. Singapore airlines (IT functions taken over in 2009 by TCS, website trashed in August, 2011) Skype (Madhu Yarlagadda fired) State of Indiana $867 million FAILED IBM project, IBM being sued State of Texas failed IBM project. Sun Micro (Taken over by Indian and Chinese workers in 2001, collapsed, had to be sold off to Oracle). World Bank (Indian fraudsters BANNED for 3 years because they stole data).

Yes, there have been some abuses, but there are also many by non-Asians. Best, Don Bauder

Last year I was replaced with an illegal Indian developer (just B1 visa) in the US and the company ( a big US IT Company from Miami) fired me. I have reported this occurrence to the ICE but nobody cares. Since this time I never get a new job because there are always cheaper Indians and in the most projects it's more important to speak and understand Hindi then your work as developer. I lost my last three jobs because of this Indian invasion. And I promise the most of this guys are not better than me just cheaper. I got more than 15 years experience in my area as developer and consider myself as an expert in this area.

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